How bank feed accounting may be ruining your construction company

Bank feed accounting saves time, but it can also create a bookkeeping mess if you’re not careful. This week we’re talking about the issues that come with bank feed accounting for construction companies and what you need to do to make sure you have a clear, accurate picture of your business’s financials.

Topics we cover in this episode include:

• The problem with relying on your bank feeds
• Issues with double counting revenue and expenses
• Job costing and bank feed accounting
• Profit First and bank feed accounting
• What you need to do to make bank feed accounting work

LINKS + RESOURCES

Join the conversation on our LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/contractor-success-forum

Watch a video version of this episode on YouTube.

Subscribe and watch video versions of all of our episodes on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@contractorsuccessforum

FIND US ONLINE

Rob Williams, Profit Strategist | IronGateESS.com
Wade Carpenter, CPA, CGMA | CarpenterCPAs.com
Stephen Brown, Bonding Expert | McWins.com

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Rob Williams: Welcome to the Contractor’s Success Forum. Today we’ve got an exciting topic, how bank feed accounting may be ruining your construction company.

We have our experts with us, Wade Carpenter, Carpenter and Company CPAs and Stephen Brown, McDaniel Whitley Bonding and Insurance Agency. And I’m Rob Williams, author of the Pumpkin Plan for Contractors.

Man. Bank feed, it’s so easy. It all happens. It’s gonna ruin my company? I thought all this was fixing us, so we had good accounting. This is crazy.

[00:00:38] Wade Carpenter: Well, this episode was born out of some frustrations. And I don’t know, I’ve just seen a rash of these lately. When we say bank feed accounting let’s define that first. There are companies, well, QuickBooks Online, Xero, those kind of companies. The idea is let’s pull the information in from the bank and not have to enter it.

And then, all your accounting is done. That’s the big promise. That sounds all great and good, but there are a lot of problems, especially when you’re talking about a construction contractor. That may be fine as long as you treat your accounting properly. But we’re gonna talk about some of the ins and outs, especially when it comes to contractors.

And I’ve just had a rash of these lately that, they come to me and they’re using one of these things like QuickBooks Online, and it just, number one, is not made for construction.

But number two, the things that it does to the balance sheet, especially if you’re not looking for it, it leads to complacency on your accounting. Thinking we don’t need somebody to look at this. It leads to fraud where something will sneak through your bank account because you expect some of those things. So that’s what I wanna talk about today.

[00:01:48] Rob Williams: That’s a great point, Wade, that you don’t think you need to look at it anymore. I think that just registered for me because it gets automated and I did look at them for a while, but then after it happens correctly five or 10 times, you tend to quit looking at it, and then it may not be right the 11th time or something. And there’s always something for me, it’s almost every month that I’ve got a multiple multiple things that I manually have to do that don’t follow the rules, even on my little business that’s not as complicated as construction.

[00:02:20] Stephen Brown: So are all bank feeds bad, Wade?

[00:02:24] Wade Carpenter: No, it just that you have to treat it properly. And when we’re talking about the fraud issue, a lot of businesses don’t realize that you don’t have the same protections as an individual. You’ve got, I think 24 hours or something like that to report these frauds, or you could be losing that money if it’s already outta your bank account.

You’ve–

[00:02:43] Rob Williams: Ooh, I didn’t know.

[00:02:44] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. Talk to a banker sometime about that because it’s, I see losses all the time, and if you don’t report it properly and quickly enough, you could be out that money whether you like it or not.

But the problem is people are relying on this and there are rules that are set up, and sometimes they don’t put it all in the same place, but there are a multitude of things that I want to talk about on this.

[00:03:06] Rob Williams: Explain what a rule is again, I know I just said that too, and I realized probably a lot of these guys don’t know what we’re talking about.

[00:03:12] Wade Carpenter: So, one of these, like QuickBooks online, a transaction comes in from, I don’t know, Walmart or something like that, I’m just making something up here. But maybe you bought fuel at Walmart’s gas station or something like that. So sometimes, you set up a rule in the program and it says if it comes in from this vendor, we’re gonna stick it in this particular category.

And sometimes they come across very differently. Sometimes they’re just completely wrong. So in theory, that’s great. But we’re gonna talk about some of the issues with job costing and stuff like that. But what we’re talking about with the rules, these bank rules that we set up and says, this vendor goes to this. That’s what we’re talking about.

[00:03:54] Rob Williams: Yeah. Got it.

[00:03:56] Stephen Brown: Okay, so bank feed, you’ve got all these transactions automatically downloading into your accounting software system. And it’s designed where you don’t have to go in there and retype each transaction and post it to the right place. But these transactions come in from the bank. How do you code these to the right job cost?

The problem with relying on your bank feeds

[00:04:18] Wade Carpenter: Well, the problem is the job costing doesn’t get done, number one. But the problem is relying on these things. They come in, and again, the feeds in from the bank sometimes will break as well. We see all the time, sometimes they will double post. And people are not, this is the thing I’ve seen probably 10 in the last month, where a prospect will come speak to me about this, and we get a copy of their QuickBooks Online file. And it has never been reconciled from the–

[00:04:49] Rob Williams: Oh, I was about to ask about–

[00:04:51] Wade Carpenter: It has never been reconciled. And even sometimes when the CPA does them, they just take what’s on there and throw it on the return, and the balance sheet is completely wrong. So again it’s a false sense of security. It’s hey, it’s doing it for me. I don’t need somebody to be looking at this stuff. And we’re gonna get into it, but it leads to misconceptions about how we’re doing, we’re making money and, I guess until we get into the details, I hope that makes sense.

[00:05:23] Rob Williams: Yeah. Yeah I’m finding the, well, two things I was gonna say, but one of them, the reconciling, I reconcile so much more often now. I do my books, I have a CPA and stuff, but I do my books often because I like to keep up with them and look at them and see where I am. But I don’t wait for the statements.

And I do have kind of a question about that. Is there something bad about that? I’ll look at the balance because, well, I know my bank, my credit cards don’t do that. But the bank account will give me the balance at each transaction. So I can just pick that and put that in and the ending date and put it in there.

I don’t know if there’s some kind of a procedure where you’re actually supposed to take the statement that’s mailed to you every month. I just, whenever I’m in there doing my books, I’ll go to the bank account and just type it in there and reconcile. It’s so quick. But I know I used to not do that and I’d get into a mess. But I reconcile, like all the time now is just a sort of a check to see what mistakes, not if, because I always make a mistake. But what mistakes I’ve made somehow.

[00:06:26] Wade Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:06:27] Rob Williams: I never asked anybody, Wade.

[00:06:29] Wade Carpenter: Well, typically you would do it when the statement comes out, when you do formal reconciliation, but we do it for a lot of our contractors. We keep up their cash every week, so we will reconcile it to a point, but not do the formal reconciliation until we get it in balance.

[00:06:45] Rob Williams: Okay, good. Okay. That’s what I, I do that and I haven’t–

[00:06:48] Wade Carpenter: One of the other issues that we have with these bank feeds is that, people rely on that. So if they hand write a check or something that’s still sitting out there and they look and it says, hey, this agrees, the bank balance says this, but you got all these checks that are sitting out there, you may be relying on that bank balance and then overdraw your account.

[00:07:09] Rob Williams: I forgot about that. That’s a huge, I only write like one to two checks a month anymore. Almost everything I do is now electronic, but I do. Luckily they cash them really fast within a day or two. But yeah, if something’s sitting out there, I don’t have a system in place to allow for that. So.

[00:07:29] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. And again, this is a personal rant, but if you had a real estate agent or a, say, an insurance agency or something that was simpler, then cash basis accounting is fine. But a contractor, we have the cash versus a accrual thing.

And yes, we could make the argument with Profit First. I’m gonna talk about some of the issues with Profit First in a little bit. But, yes there’s some management that can be done on the cash level, but to really know how you’re coming out on your jobs and overall, if you’re winning, a huge check could come in one month and or a whole bunch of money could go out one month and you don’t know really how you’re doing unless you keep accrual basis books. Which leads into some of the other issues with double counting revenue and double counting expenses. So can we go into that a little bit?

[00:08:20] Stephen Brown: Yeah.

[00:08:21] Rob Williams: Yeah. That and the timing, boy, yeah, that’s.

Issues with double counting revenue and expenses

[00:08:24] Wade Carpenter: So let’s talk about, say you invoice your jobs, you put your receivables in there in the, say QuickBooks. I’m going to pick on QuickBooks Online. You put a receivable in there, but the bank feed pulls it in and says, this deposit, the rule says it’s income, so it automatically puts it in income.

But when you did the accrual you would generate that invoice, it also threw it in income. So number one, on your P&L, you’re looking at doubling revenue. On the balance sheet, you’re looking at, hey, there’s a receivable that’s still sitting out there that never cleared. So you’re wrecking that side of, and I mean I see that all the time where receivables are not even close.

Same with payables. You’ve got your payables and when they come in from the bank and it’s Home Depot or something, that rule’s gonna send it to materials. Maybe you put that bill in your account so it never clears out the payable. So you wreck both the balance sheet and the P&L, and sometimes you may be double counting.

So it can very easily lead to misconceptions like, how are we doing? There are also sometimes like some of these canned rules that, auto payment or whatever sends it in to, say, the P&L when something should be capitalized and vice versa. So there’s a lot of these things where these rules are wrecking the balance sheet. And you can’t rely on it. And even if you reconcile, you could still have these double counting problems.

[00:09:56] Rob Williams: That brings up kind of two separate issues. One of them is, the matching the transactions like you’re saying, to make sure that it’s not double in there. And then the second one is the, I have both of these situations right now in situations with me and clients and or even myself now.

But the other one is the timing of these things like you’re talking about because of accrual versus cash basis and things not showing up in the right period. We are like doing monthly books and they’re way off on the margins because they’re not in the right thing.

But the matching, I guess taking that, I have a lot of problem with that of matching the transactions. And I’ll admit, I don’t know that I completely understand it. I think I’m getting all these matches right. But I’m just, sometimes I’m not sure how I find, and at the end of the day, I’m not a hundred percent sure that everything is matched up until I finally– once I print my financial statements and go through all this, then I finally feel pretty good about it and everything’s reconciled.

But during the middle of that, I don’t know how all these things are matched and my confidence level that it’s all correct is really low.

[00:11:00] Stephen Brown: Yeah. And if you don’t have your CPA involved helping you out too, that’s an extra set of eyes making sure. There’s nothing like an accountant when things don’t reconcile. They have to, because that’s what they do.

[00:11:15] Wade Carpenter: We don’t wanna clean up the messes either though.

[00:11:18] Stephen Brown: That’s right. And you gotta clean up the mess and also try to help your customers get it set up the right way.

I know Wade, some banks will say, well, if your software is hacked because of one of our bank feeds, that’s on you. Because that’s on your software. So there’s some cybersecurity risk involved. There’s getting it set up the right way, like you said, with the rules and how it comes in.

And then, like you also said, your in-house books might show that you’ve got more or less profit or cash than you actually have, because these postings have not been corrected.

[00:11:58] Wade Carpenter: So if I could, I’d like to go back to something Rob said, which actually I wasn’t really gonna go into this point, but what Rob said was a great point. These rules that, like a deposit would come in for a certain amount, but say you put two or three checks in, so you can’t tie those in unless you run it through the accounting software properly.

So you could have one big lump sum amount and you can’t find it, so you just automatically send it into revenue. That’s another issue where we have these double counting of revenue and it’s just, it’s a constant problem of trying to keep these things in balance if you don’t watch it. So.

[00:12:42] Rob Williams: Ah, yeah, Wade, you just pointed that out. Yeah, because we send it in there and then we’re just assuming that it’s gonna get attached to that one. The computer’s gonna match them. But sometimes, like, there are a whole bunch of transactions for a thousand dollars, like exactly At $1,000. It’s like, okay, which $1,000 goes where, with which one?

[00:13:03] Wade Carpenter: Right.

[00:13:04] Rob Williams: It’s crazy.

[00:13:05] Wade Carpenter: Well, even if you did the properly receiving, on the receivable, but if you bunched them together and you didn’t do the proper deposit, it’s not gonna match it. So hope that makes sense.

[00:13:17] Rob Williams: Yeah. It, it may I hear the pain. Do I understand it again? No, that’s, but uh–

[00:13:24] Wade Carpenter: The pain for us CPAs is straightening this out. And I’m gonna talk about some of these things, like the Profit First issues in a minute.

Job costing and bank feed accounting

[00:13:30] Wade Carpenter: Let’s talk about the job costing. When I talk to a new client, that’s the number one thing is, they always want better information. But they’re relying on these programs like bank feed accounting to pull this stuff in.

Well, number one, the bank is gonna pull it in by vendor, but there is no way to tell it without manually going in there and saying, this is for this job. You can’t really do it with the QuickBooks Online, but with the desktop version or some of these other softwares, you probably want a phase code, cost code structure if you’re trying to compare like your estimates to your actual.

So the bank feeds just kill the ability to have this job costing unless you’re gonna go back and manually key every one. And nobody does that because they think, hey, it’s supposed to be doing all this stuff for me.

[00:14:19] Rob Williams: Yeah, that, that’s a great point. Yeah, because it, everything used to be manually. We had these tickets that we had made that we’d stapled on top of every invoice and we filled that out by hand. And we didn’t actually enter the information from the invoice. We entered it in the computer from the ticket. And so I’m trying to think of how that translates to these days.

And I think a lot of it, when we did go to the automation, yes, I was still in business doing this when we had a little bit of this stuff, but we had to put the purchase order on there that had the job information and stuff. But that means you gotta have a system that’s doing that. And a lot of these guys that I’m talking to don’t have that.

[00:14:58] Wade Carpenter: Well, that’s probably getting into another subject that I talk about all the time, but you know, a purchase order system, if you do it properly and say you got subs, that’s a great way to make sure that you don’t have to go back to your project managers and go, how do we code this, and where does it go with?

But that’s where we’ve had to build our own system to work with contractors remotely to be able to work with payables. But that’s getting a little beyond the issue we’re talking about today with the bank feeds.

Profit First and bank feed accounting

[00:15:25] Wade Carpenter: But if I could, I’d kinda like to switch a little bit because you know, Rob and I are both Mastery certified in Profit First. And that is one of the main things that, and Rob’s probably heard of this too, that people, especially accountants, CPAs, bookkeepers that do books, they don’t understand the system, they don’t understand why this makes such a mess of their accounting.

And the big thing with Profit First is we’re going to put money into a certain income account, it comes in, and then we allocate it. And if you’re not actively in there, putting it through your books and like, we did this bank transfer from here to here.

Then when the transfer comes in, the feed says, oh, okay, this is income for this transfer. This is an expense, or it came from somewhere else. So it’s money back and forth. And straightening all those transfers out, it can create a huge mess. And that’s why, you know, Rob, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed, but you ever read the reviews on Profit First on Amazon?

[00:16:28] Rob Williams: Yeah. Oh. No, I’ve seen some videos on it. I hadn’t read them really on Amazon.

[00:16:34] Wade Carpenter: Well, overwhelmingly it’s positive results. And the ones that grasp it. But the ones that trash are people like me, the CPAs that say, this doesn’t work. This is stupid. It created a wreck of my books.

And if you treat it properly, reconciling is actually pretty darn easy. But if you’re relying on these bank feeds, so straighten out your transfers, it can create a complete nightmare. And it’s gonna cost you more money to clean that stuff up if you’re not treating it properly. So.

[00:17:05] Rob Williams: Yeah. I self-implemented for a year or two before I became a Profit First Professional, and learned some of the tips and tricks and I had a mess. I had a whole system I was creating because I, I didn’t know just some of the small things to do to keep it organized. And so I had a whole system that took me longer than my accounting system to keep it straight. I wrote this complicated spreadsheet that I’d fill out before I’d put it in the other stuff, and it was insane.

But yeah. Yeah. Getting it down, it’s just some things that just take a few minutes to do right. It just, you hadn’t thought about it if you didn’t have help. Because I bet probably a lot more people self implement Profit First than do with a Profit First Professional. and Most people try it first, themselves. It gets to be, and it’s not always a mess. I actually have had a couple of guys come to me that were doing a really good job. But a lot of it leads to what kind of business they have and the structure of their business and whether they had a lot of exceptions that we have to work around with that.

[00:18:08] Wade Carpenter: Well, it definitely can help a contractor. It’s just whether it’s making the book’s a mess. That’s a topic I’m talking about today. But.

[00:18:16] Rob Williams: Good. Good.

What you need to do to make bank feed accounting work

[00:18:16] Wade Carpenter: So again, bank feed accounting doesn’t have to be a train wreck. There are some things you should be doing. You know, If you print your checks directly out of the system, it’s already there before it hits the bank. If you receive a money in on a receivable, you’ve got to put that in there before your bank feed hits, if you’ve got it doing transfers for Profit First, done properly it can still work.

It’s still never gonna do the job costing that you need in some things like QuickBooks Online or Xero. And that’s where you have to get into these third party softwares, which never seem to work as well as you’d hope they would. And so I don’t mean to go into a, another rant, but you know that’s the one thing that I see that if contractors would pay more attention and do their job costing, they could definitely turn around their business and make more money and, I don’t know. I just see it all the time.

[00:19:12] Rob Williams: If they have the knowledge. One thing you just made me realize is since I have the different bank accounts, I’ve been able to set up my rules more accurately for the automation because of Profit First rather than the opposite. Because a lot of my rules are based on which account it’s coming from.

So, like my Owner’s Pay account, well it can only be a couple of things if it’s coming out of the Owner’s Pay, or if it’s in there. And some of the other ones, like if you have a materials account and you have a sub account, it narrows down what that transaction’s gonna be, just because it’s coming out of that bank account. So that actually can help some of the automation. It just occurred to me that’s actually made it easier.

[00:19:53] Stephen Brown: That’s what I was thinking, Wade. You know, about Profit first. You have different bank accounts set up for different purposes. You would think that feed would be a little more accurate.

[00:20:03] Wade Carpenter: Well, the rules have gotten better, but they don’t necessarily always know, hey, it came in, it just says transfer. And the rules can’t pick up. Say, this is where it came from. So it just won’t do it. So again, bank feeds are not all bad.

[00:20:19] Rob Williams: One little trick that I’ve started doing is on my transfers on a couple of them, particularly when I’m doing like a random transfer, like moving money or if I need something. I’ve been like, my account numbers, I have names for them, but I also have numbers for them. So I’ve been like ending it in 12 cents if it’s coming from the 12 or if, it’s going to the 12.

Anyway, that was just another rule that I did if it doesn’t matter with that, because I’ve got 12, 13, 14. 15. And then I know from that, because I used to have the same amount. There were a couple things that I had this, the same amount for particular reasons going in. I didn’t know, which one was which. So it’d be like $1,000 and 12 cents, $1,000 and 13 cents. Anyway, that was just a little trick that I had to do. So use it or don’t use it, but if it does come up that was something I came up with for the rules and stuff, so I’d know, and just so I could know from looking at it, because I could not figure out when these things were matching. I had no way of matching these when they were all the same dollar amount in the construction accounting.

But anyway we keep learning and we keep coming up with crazy ideas, but back to the subject. But that was a crazy tip. That’s probably one of the craziest things I’ve done.

And I’m looking, Wade looking at me, so

[00:21:33] Stephen Brown: Well, you know, he was right in the middle of explaining something, but I, I’m curious about all these thousand dollars payments that you’ve got. Who are you paying exactly a thousand dollars to? I’m just a little concerned buddy.

[00:21:44] Rob Williams: Those are usually transfers when I’m moving, say if I’m short in one account, or if I’ve–

[00:21:49] Wade Carpenter: So I guess, like I said, bank feeds are not all bad. The ideas behind it are good. The problem is if you’re not taking a proactive approach to your accounts, if you don’t know what you’re doing, you need some help.

Things like credit cards, it definitely can save some time, especially if you’re trying to job cost something from, it’s materials or something like that.

But really just take some time and spend some time with your books. And, a lot of people in construction, they see accounting as an overhead that they don’t necessarily need. If we can just get one of these softwares, or even these, I could start another podcast about all these third party softwares that they promised the world to put it on top of one of these programs. And treated properly, they do a fair job. They can.

I had one yesterday and I had one last week. One of them had spent two years implementing the software. And they spent so much money and gone so far down the road that it’s like, we’re not gonna give up on it now, but they weren’t any farther along than they were two years ago.

[00:22:56] Stephen Brown: That’s scary.

[00:22:56] Wade Carpenter: Sad. And so I guess my point today is, take a proactive approach to your accounting. I do believe that’s one of the main things a contractor can do to improve his profitability is know where you are, know what your breakeven point is and how you’re doing, and whether you’re winning or losing.

[00:23:15] Stephen Brown: And contractors, you don’t have to be an attorney. You don’t have to be a CPA to study these special things that you need to know about running your company, but you need a good one. You need a good attorney. You need a good CPA that gives you good advice. So that’s again my plug for construction oriented accountants. They’re not just part of it. They’re everything.

[00:23:37] Rob Williams: It’s so important to have your accounting right. I’m seeing when I have new guys come in and we try to look at monthly reports or stuff, and then when we start studying them and when we put them into Cash Flow Story and we put them into some of these things, the information’s just not there.

They don’t have the accruals, like when they do a job, I guess the automation is coming in and so, Wade, their expenses are being reported, but their revenue doesn’t get reported until he fills out the invoice because these guys are not invoicing the day of the job. They’re invoicing when that money comes in. It’s not going in there, he may do something in the field, but it’s not coming in.

So I had a friend recently buy a company and so it’s in brand new books again. And so the expenses are coming in, it looks like he’s losing his butt. But after I started looking at it, I’m saying, well, gosh, you got all this, your expenses are automatically coming in in the software, and then your revenue’s a month behind. So the profits are like misreporting by, let’s say a whole month’s worth of revenue because it’s delayed.

I guess they’ll clean it up the end of the year, but it’s let’s try to get that monthly and figure out if we can get some things in here. And I haven’t thought about, we didn’t run into that as much in the old days, but I guess that’s being caused because of the bank feed accounting and certain things are coming in timely and certain things are not. And it’s not an accrual, it’s a cash balance system there. There’s so many things. You’ve got me thinking about so many different things in the business now that I didn’t realize. It’s because of the changes in bank feed accounting.

[00:25:14] Wade Carpenter: Well, again, it’s the type of construction you do. There are certain types. Like, say you’re a handyman and you get paid on the spot, you know, that’s one thing. You can run it cash basis, but if you wait 30 days to get paid or you don’t get paid on the spot, you need accrual books. You really do.

[00:25:33] Rob Williams: Even though they can report them doing their taxes, they can still do their taxes on cash basis right?

[00:25:37] Wade Carpenter: Yes, absolutely.

[00:25:38] Rob Williams: For management purposes, you do it accrual.

[00:25:42] Wade Carpenter: Yeah, That’s where, how I tell you, if you’re really winning or losing the game.

[00:25:47] Rob Williams: Right. And without this information, a couple things. You cannot grow your company safely, like we always say, profitably and manage your cash and know what’s happening to you without good accounting information. And now we’re actually getting into a lot of companies preparing their business for sale or even if they’re gonna keep them. And if your books are not accurate to not just cash budget, you’re gonna need this accrual information to correctly be reporting this stuff that’s gonna, the sale’s gonna follow through, probably. So get this stuff right. There’s so many different reasons to get it right. And I guess where that fits in with the bank feed accounting is something I’m gonna keep thinking about, Wade.

And Stephen, I guess, how’s that affect, have you been able to connect the dots on that under your bonding?

[00:26:35] Stephen Brown: Yeah, well, it just makes me think about anytime a bonding company looks at your financials, it’s a snapshot of what they see is going on. Whatever that date is, those financials were prepared. So that’s while we’re so dependent on the fiscal year end, because we know a CPA has gone over those numbers.

But the better your CPA can help you prepare your in-house financial statements, the better job you can do of managing your company and your cost.

[00:27:05] Rob Williams: Yep.

[00:27:06] Wade Carpenter: Well, I think I’ve said my peace. Thank you guys for letting me rant today a little bit.

[00:27:10] Rob Williams: Yeah. Call Wade. Call Stephen. Call me about that. There’s so many different things that, we may be able to help. Wade can definitely help, but we might have some ideas looking at your numbers and things too that, because of these situations, and I guess everybody’s almost in a transition going through this, Wade.

Everybody’s having to adapt it. I’ve seen some people that are not, and they just got a lot of data entry. They’re hand typing every little thing off of the statement. There’s still some people doing that, but that seems pretty inefficient these days.

But call us, contact us. Tell us what you think about this. Bank feed accounting is here, I think, isn’t it, Wade? I don’t know if we’re gonna–

[00:27:48] Wade Carpenter: Then again, it’s not necessarily a bad thing, but you gotta be more proactive and not just rely on having it do all for you.

[00:27:57] Rob Williams: All Right. Well, thanks a lot guys. So, this is really valuable. On the Contractor Success Forum,, we have Stephen Brown, McDaniel Whitley Bonding and insurance agency. Give him a call. Look him up, find out, he is the insurance guy that actually cares about this stuff and is making a difference to his contractors, working with them because he’s got 30 years doing this.

And then Wade Carpenter, Carpenter and Company CPAs, he’s got decades. He was doing this in the womb under his dad, I think, back. So He’s got so much time doing this as well. And since I’m only 20 years old I guess I, I may have yeah. So,.

[00:28:35] Stephen Brown: Thank you, Wade.

[00:28:36] Rob Williams: Authoring the Pumpkin Plan for Contractors.

Look us up, ContractorSuccessForum.com and find us on YouTube and wherever else you may find us. So thanks a lot guys, and come back and see our next episode of the Contractor Success Forum. Thanks.